The term registered massage therapist is a term used to describe people that have completed a course approved by the "College of Massage Therapists" in Ontario or British Columbia. These courses tend to be between 2200 hours and 3000 hours long and cost approximately $20,000 to $30,000. The courses often emphasize only the so called "scientific" aspects of massage therapy and neglect the holistic and traditional aspects of massage therapy.
We have no problem with these courses in their particular approach to training massage therapists. We believe massage therapy is a healing art and like any art form there are many different ways to practice that art form. Of course, we personally think it's smarter to also study cultures and their massage styles, where massage has had thousands of years of history but we totally believe that these registered massage therapists in the Canadian provinces of Ontario and British Columbia should be able to practice massage therapy in the way that they think is best.
However, some of these registered massage therapists and their political bodies believe that only their form of the healing art of massage therapy should be able to be called massage therapy. This is what they have done in Ontario and British Columbia. They have enforced a ban on practitioners of all other styles of massage therapy such as Hawaiian massage (lomi lomi), Thai massage, Shiatsu, Tui Na, Ayurvedic massage, Balinese massage, Indian Head massage, Raynor massage, and many other massage therapists from using the term massage therapist or describing what they do as massage therapy.
They have used the oldest saying in the book that what they are doing is to protect the public from harm. Interesting, because no one in traditional Hawaii or China or Japan or Thailand or India or in fact, in almost any other country where massage has a long and established history, has felt that they need to regulate and exert centralized control over this ancient art form that is such an important aspect of primary health care. People have been practising Thai, Hawaiian and other native massage styles for thousands of years, not with harm, but with great benefit to the culture and health of these societies.
We can see that in many situations in life especially in politics, people like to take away our freedom to choose by saying that it is for our own protection. In most situations like this the people taking away the freedom have a vested economic interest in taking away that freedom, such as we can see here with the interests of the big established massage schools generating huge amounts of money by making the courses extremely long, and we also see the graduates of these schools wanting to keep a monopoly on their profession and keep other practitioners out rather than allow the free market to dominate, fearful this may show that some people just prefer a different type of healing art.
Here in this situation the Registered Massage Therapy political lobby and the College of Massage Therapists in Ontario and BC are promoting only one culture's perspective on massage and claiming that that is the only legitimate form of massage therapy. The training that they recognise is basically a Western medical practitioners approach to massage therapy. There is a heavy emphasis on seeing the human being as just muscles, bones and blood etc rather than seeing the human being from a holistic perspective, or Eastern medical perspective, as an integrated mind, body spirit being.
There is no significant history of massage in Western medicine, other than Swedish or classical massage which goes back about 200 years, and this was originally practiced outside of conventional medicine as something similar to gymnastics or physiotherapy. This is very different to the history of massage in countries and cultures like China, Japan, India and Hawaii where massage has thousands of years of history and practitioners in these cultures have treated billions of people safely for thousands of years.
However, in these cultures the philosophy behind their massage therapy has been one of moving the chi, prana or life force in the body and by so doing this one will also relieve the physical tension in the muscles. To understand these forms of massage one must also understand the paradigm of thought behind them and these go beyond the understanding that Western medicine has of the human body.
Western medicine does not readily accept the existence of chi or life force in general, although, there are many exceptions as some more enlightened doctors have sought to bridge the gap between Eastern and Western medicine.
The fact that Western medicine does not accept the existence of the chi, prana, spirit or soul etc is fine as long as they do not try to stop people who do accept these from practicing their healing art. Western medicine is based on science and everybody that practices science in a serious manner knows that science has limitations about what aspects of life it can know and not know. The areas that science generally can't understand are termed metaphysics. See this article in Wikipedia for more about what metaphysics means.
There are many things that science cannot and does not understand. Many of these relate to matters such as the nature of life itself. What is the difference between a living person and a dead person? The body is the same but there is a profound difference that science doesn't really explain adequately other than to describe the symptoms of the departure of the life force. It does not understand the nature of the life force itself.
In relation to massage and its regulation or "registration", is that why should one particular people with a philosophy that believes their form of medicine is better than all other cultures forms of medicine, because it is based on science, even though science has no understanding of life itself,(and healing arts are actually totally concerned with the life force in most cases) force other people to think within scientific limitations. Why should this one group of people force their limited and narrow philosophy of healing on to every other person in such multicultural provinces such as Ontario and British Columbia, of a great and tolerant country like Canada.
The term "massage therapy" and "massage therapist" should not be allowed to be owned by one select group of people with a limited philosophy. These terms like painter, sculptor, healer, shaman, natural health practitioner, etc etc are terms that have been around for millennium and mean different things to different people in different cultures.
Why should a consumer not be able to choose their own version of massage therapy. Is a person aged 60 who has been trained for 100 generations in Ayurvedic massage in India, and had 50 years of experience in the healing arts, any less of a massage therapist that a 22 year old graduate of an Ontario massage college, who has almost no life experience or maturity. This is ridiculous.
Every culture has emphasized different things in training their massage therapists. In Korea and Japan many blind people became massage therapists because they had an excellent sense of touch. Having an "excellent sense of touch" is hardly even considered important in considering who will be able to use the term massage therapist in Ontario, BC or Newfoundland. Yet having an excellent sense of touch would be considered by most people to be one of the most important aspects of being a good massage therapist.
In Hawaii, being a good massage therapist may mean being a very good kahuna, or healer, with a great sense of aloha, or open heartedness, and respect for and connection with the spirit world of the elders. Being able to harness the metaphysical energies of the spirit world may be a particular gift for some people and not for others and would not be something that a Board of Massage Therapists would be qualified to recognize, only the people receiving the massage from the therapist or healer.
It is interesting to look at the history of the regulation of massage and to see that one of the first places to regulate massage in the world was Hawaii. The purpose for this regulation was to stamp out traditional Hawaiian healing methods.
The test to be a massage therapist was a very intellectual one of naming latin names for muscles etc.
Many of the best kahunas at the time could not even read or write as it wasn't part of their culture and so could not pass the test even though massage had been in their families for hundred of generations and they were considered the best healers and massage therapists in the islands. Again the reasons to suppress the Hawaiians healing methods were one particular group of people's belief, in this case white missionaries, that Hawaiian healing methods were heathen. See this wikipedia article for more information
Another example of one culture stopping another cultures healing methods was when the British invaded India and outlawed all Ayurvedic hospitals. Ayurveda has a 5000 year history of medicine to share with the world but because it wasn't scientific or in accordance with European Christian philosophy, it was outlawed.
This is something that should be relegated to the past. In today's world we should show respect for all cultures' forms of medicine and allow freedom of choice in health care to prevail which means that let the consumer pick the health practitioner of their choice according to that persons' own tastes, culture, desires and needs and curiosities etc and, of course, the reputation of the practitioner.
There is no need to regulate the practice of massage therapy as the example of countries like the UK, Australia and New Zealand show where the consumer has a huge amount of choice and it is the practitioner's reputation and the quality of their treatments that influence the consumers choice of a health practitioner not a group of bureaucrats with vested interests to protect.
You can now learn Raynor massage in our online massage course.
We have no problem with these courses in their particular approach to training massage therapists. We believe massage therapy is a healing art and like any art form there are many different ways to practice that art form. Of course, we personally think it's smarter to also study cultures and their massage styles, where massage has had thousands of years of history but we totally believe that these registered massage therapists in the Canadian provinces of Ontario and British Columbia should be able to practice massage therapy in the way that they think is best.
However, some of these registered massage therapists and their political bodies believe that only their form of the healing art of massage therapy should be able to be called massage therapy. This is what they have done in Ontario and British Columbia. They have enforced a ban on practitioners of all other styles of massage therapy such as Hawaiian massage (lomi lomi), Thai massage, Shiatsu, Tui Na, Ayurvedic massage, Balinese massage, Indian Head massage, Raynor massage, and many other massage therapists from using the term massage therapist or describing what they do as massage therapy.
They have used the oldest saying in the book that what they are doing is to protect the public from harm. Interesting, because no one in traditional Hawaii or China or Japan or Thailand or India or in fact, in almost any other country where massage has a long and established history, has felt that they need to regulate and exert centralized control over this ancient art form that is such an important aspect of primary health care. People have been practising Thai, Hawaiian and other native massage styles for thousands of years, not with harm, but with great benefit to the culture and health of these societies.
We can see that in many situations in life especially in politics, people like to take away our freedom to choose by saying that it is for our own protection. In most situations like this the people taking away the freedom have a vested economic interest in taking away that freedom, such as we can see here with the interests of the big established massage schools generating huge amounts of money by making the courses extremely long, and we also see the graduates of these schools wanting to keep a monopoly on their profession and keep other practitioners out rather than allow the free market to dominate, fearful this may show that some people just prefer a different type of healing art.
Here in this situation the Registered Massage Therapy political lobby and the College of Massage Therapists in Ontario and BC are promoting only one culture's perspective on massage and claiming that that is the only legitimate form of massage therapy. The training that they recognise is basically a Western medical practitioners approach to massage therapy. There is a heavy emphasis on seeing the human being as just muscles, bones and blood etc rather than seeing the human being from a holistic perspective, or Eastern medical perspective, as an integrated mind, body spirit being.
There is no significant history of massage in Western medicine, other than Swedish or classical massage which goes back about 200 years, and this was originally practiced outside of conventional medicine as something similar to gymnastics or physiotherapy. This is very different to the history of massage in countries and cultures like China, Japan, India and Hawaii where massage has thousands of years of history and practitioners in these cultures have treated billions of people safely for thousands of years.
However, in these cultures the philosophy behind their massage therapy has been one of moving the chi, prana or life force in the body and by so doing this one will also relieve the physical tension in the muscles. To understand these forms of massage one must also understand the paradigm of thought behind them and these go beyond the understanding that Western medicine has of the human body.
Western medicine does not readily accept the existence of chi or life force in general, although, there are many exceptions as some more enlightened doctors have sought to bridge the gap between Eastern and Western medicine.
The fact that Western medicine does not accept the existence of the chi, prana, spirit or soul etc is fine as long as they do not try to stop people who do accept these from practicing their healing art. Western medicine is based on science and everybody that practices science in a serious manner knows that science has limitations about what aspects of life it can know and not know. The areas that science generally can't understand are termed metaphysics. See this article in Wikipedia for more about what metaphysics means.
There are many things that science cannot and does not understand. Many of these relate to matters such as the nature of life itself. What is the difference between a living person and a dead person? The body is the same but there is a profound difference that science doesn't really explain adequately other than to describe the symptoms of the departure of the life force. It does not understand the nature of the life force itself.
In relation to massage and its regulation or "registration", is that why should one particular people with a philosophy that believes their form of medicine is better than all other cultures forms of medicine, because it is based on science, even though science has no understanding of life itself,(and healing arts are actually totally concerned with the life force in most cases) force other people to think within scientific limitations. Why should this one group of people force their limited and narrow philosophy of healing on to every other person in such multicultural provinces such as Ontario and British Columbia, of a great and tolerant country like Canada.
The term "massage therapy" and "massage therapist" should not be allowed to be owned by one select group of people with a limited philosophy. These terms like painter, sculptor, healer, shaman, natural health practitioner, etc etc are terms that have been around for millennium and mean different things to different people in different cultures.
Why should a consumer not be able to choose their own version of massage therapy. Is a person aged 60 who has been trained for 100 generations in Ayurvedic massage in India, and had 50 years of experience in the healing arts, any less of a massage therapist that a 22 year old graduate of an Ontario massage college, who has almost no life experience or maturity. This is ridiculous.
Every culture has emphasized different things in training their massage therapists. In Korea and Japan many blind people became massage therapists because they had an excellent sense of touch. Having an "excellent sense of touch" is hardly even considered important in considering who will be able to use the term massage therapist in Ontario, BC or Newfoundland. Yet having an excellent sense of touch would be considered by most people to be one of the most important aspects of being a good massage therapist.
In Hawaii, being a good massage therapist may mean being a very good kahuna, or healer, with a great sense of aloha, or open heartedness, and respect for and connection with the spirit world of the elders. Being able to harness the metaphysical energies of the spirit world may be a particular gift for some people and not for others and would not be something that a Board of Massage Therapists would be qualified to recognize, only the people receiving the massage from the therapist or healer.
It is interesting to look at the history of the regulation of massage and to see that one of the first places to regulate massage in the world was Hawaii. The purpose for this regulation was to stamp out traditional Hawaiian healing methods.
The test to be a massage therapist was a very intellectual one of naming latin names for muscles etc.
Many of the best kahunas at the time could not even read or write as it wasn't part of their culture and so could not pass the test even though massage had been in their families for hundred of generations and they were considered the best healers and massage therapists in the islands. Again the reasons to suppress the Hawaiians healing methods were one particular group of people's belief, in this case white missionaries, that Hawaiian healing methods were heathen. See this wikipedia article for more information
Another example of one culture stopping another cultures healing methods was when the British invaded India and outlawed all Ayurvedic hospitals. Ayurveda has a 5000 year history of medicine to share with the world but because it wasn't scientific or in accordance with European Christian philosophy, it was outlawed.
This is something that should be relegated to the past. In today's world we should show respect for all cultures' forms of medicine and allow freedom of choice in health care to prevail which means that let the consumer pick the health practitioner of their choice according to that persons' own tastes, culture, desires and needs and curiosities etc and, of course, the reputation of the practitioner.
There is no need to regulate the practice of massage therapy as the example of countries like the UK, Australia and New Zealand show where the consumer has a huge amount of choice and it is the practitioner's reputation and the quality of their treatments that influence the consumers choice of a health practitioner not a group of bureaucrats with vested interests to protect.
You can now learn Raynor massage in our online massage course.
They are everywhere, keep exposing them Brandon, they have a lot fear when they are so easily exposed, regulation is their only chance of survival because they cannot justify there existence based on results.
ReplyDeleteBrandon it's as if our hearts beat to the same pulse. Thankyou
ReplyDeleteas posted today on the Canadian forum. ( 2parts)
ReplyDeleteHaving attended two Raynor courses I can truthfully say that the technique is not promoted as a clinical style of healing, rather a more holistic approach. We discussed on the course what to do with injuries and the advice given was to work on the areas that were not injured and to leave the areas requiring more formal treatment to specialists like chiropractors, physiotherapists, doctors and osteos.
Having suffered from a undiagnosed broken leg on top of a black sprained ankle and the subsequent rather painful physio sessions. I requested private concurrent acupuncture prepared chiropractic treatments.
I sought out chiro treatment when the physio was just not working, the chiro who incidentally carried out excellent work using the acupuncture blocked ankle backed away from further treatment once the break was discovered just as the Raynor practitioners do.
I think it is up to the individual therapist to treat the patient to the best of their abilities and to respect the role others play.
I know Chiros fought for years for recognition in NZ and Australia. This was finally granted along with government support here in New Zealand some years ago. Prior to this people chose to attend and pay for the then "radical" chiro treatments based on results and word of mouth rather than just accept the free physio treatments. The same happened with Osteo's.
Someone said, there is nothing to fear from change but change itself. Maybe RMT's trying to protect their investment and position could try a series of Raynor treatments for themselves and perhaps learn some new techniques to help their patients. or at least gain an understanding of what is done rather than rely on third party evidence.
I attended the Raynor course to learn what would be best for myself as massage treatment and do not practice,
I have completed five free 3x 2 hour treatments on friends of associates who all rate the treatment as excellent and would happily pay for more treatments. So in the eyes of the patients at least the two weeks training was enough.
After all isn't that what the practitioner should be working towards- an excellent result for the patient?
end of part 1.
Posted from Copenhagen.
Part 2. as posted on the RMT forum on FB.
ReplyDeleteI will always take a Raynor massage before any other, having been massaged by specialists in Syria, Iran, Turkey, Uzbekistan, Kyrgistan,Western China, Tibet,India, Thailand, Central China, Hawaii, Singapore Fiji, Tonga Australia and New Zealand I feel well qualified to express an opinion.
Only in one place- Tibet did I receive a massage without any OW involved. The most painful- Thailand, although the day after I felt on top of the world. Each was different and as a patient I made my own choices.
As a patient I feel my money and time is best spent with a Raynor treatment. My last one was in London a few weeks ago.
Incidentally my Raynor treatments now have no OW involved at all, as the areas they work on are clear and I finished each of the massages completely relaxed and at peace.
There is an opportunity for the RMT's here to change the entrenched protective attitudes that are visible here.
(Incidentally it looks like this was inherited from the Medical Doctors- I should know I married one!)
Only by learning and embracing these other techniques and finding a way to work together and to respect each others positions will the Massage profession rise to where it belongs at the forefront of treatment.
Other medical practitioners now learn from each other.
Chiropractors, physiotherapists, doctors and osteos all work together respecting each others positions.
Check out how many Medical Doctors use Acupuncture for stop smoking treatments in your area. It is not hocus pocus medicine it really works.
There was no other way the Chiro could have worked on me without acupuncture based pain blocking, something the physio did not have and failed accordingly.
The combinations of techniques in the Raynor technique I have seen deployed in parts all over the world,all Brandon has done is to find a way to teach them in a complimentary fashion so that the end is greater than the sum of the parts.
Open up the dialogue and don't censor your own forum you do yourselves and your profession a disservice. Keep learning and keep smiling.
well my posting lasted about 30 mins, will post it again after they booted me off the forum
ReplyDeleteI do believe Registered Massage Therapist do feel threatened by the Raynor Technique because in my opinion what is being taught by Raynor is Holistic and truly helping people with issue's of deep seeded blocked tension and emotional issue's which are being release by this technique an RMT does not do this they are doing there job and it does feel good but are they doing it because they want to or because its good the money. I don't think that there truly is any connection with the person they are working on.Its mechanical Thats the experience's I have had anyway..I think we live in a world that has lost that and people desperatly are needing to reconnect again. I for one highly recommend Raynor Massage for people who would like to live a life free of tension and emotional issue's which are stored in our body from years of built up crap...I'm all for it..
ReplyDeleteHi Everyone,
ReplyDeleteI'm a year graduated from the Raynor method of massage practice. As I understand the issue, there appears to be discordance between the legality of the word "massage therapist." Having gone for professional schooling in philosophy and psychology and having had to pay around $40,000 for such schooling, I can understand the graduates of a college of massage therapists. After paying so much money and spending such a long period of time learning the discipline (or what the western world believes as so), they need some kind of advantage over us who spend $1-3000 and a few weeks of our time. The issue really does not lay within the wording of "therapist" but rather the "registration" where clients can claim a sizeable portion at the least from their benefits.
What needs to be changed is how the public can utilize a Raynor massage WHILE claiming their benefits. There needs to be a very clear distinction between registered massage therapists and massage practitioners. It's almost impossible to get work without being registered, which makes things so much harder for one who practices a larger scope of healing.
I think that what is needed is a large following of practitioners lobbying for their rights to practice a healing "art." And not to be confused with the medical standpoint of "therapy."
We need to get into the minds of the public who are our projected clients. Imagine realistically what would happen if I hurt myself somehow and didn't know what it was--I would obviously go to a medical doctor first for their opinion. I would go through the necessary procedures should I agree with what was diagnosed and prescribed. If the problem persisted, I would find alternative methods of treatment. This is where we come in in this allegory. We should not advertise that we do the massage therapist's job for them, or better. What we do is DIFFERENT. It's an alternative to the medical therapy.
If I graduated from a $20,000 school and spent 2-3 years of my life there to work in this "real world" I wouldn't want to be undercut by someone who did a few weeks worth of schooling and spent merely a fraction of the cost for their schooling. We must understand the perspectives of these graduates and work WITH them, not against them.
Unfortunately, this means less work initially for us as Raynor graduates; but don't fret if those coming for continued treatments to a RMT and decide for something different will likely only go for RMT treatments when they can claim it from their benefits, and otherwise will come to us for their holistic treatment.
If we can add an alternative subsection in the list of accepted benefits from most organizations, such as "alternative treatments" or something like that, making no CLEAR encroachment on the RMT's territory, then we will be MUCH better off. We must work together not against the RMTs.
The opposite of war is not anti-war, it is peace.
Rob
robert@we-are-one.ca
brandon we r with u god bless...
ReplyDeleteI notice ALL the comments are SO POSITIVE! Nobody is stopping anyone from choosing any type of massage they want to have. The regulation is on the title of massage therapist and this basically affects insurance benefits. Many of us already don't have any benefits, like me, so I have equal opportunity to choose any type of massage I want to.
ReplyDeleteYOUR type of massage is of concern as it "trains" people to do very advanced methods of join manipulation in "no time at all". I have been and do go for alternative health care but if someone cranked my head around backwards (someone who could have been driving a truck or serving burgers ten days ago) I would not go back.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteRegarding the distinction between RMT’s vs Non-RMT’s . First of all, how much more clear can it be as to whether the public are dealing with a Registered Massage Therapist or not? You are either a “Registered Massage Therapist” and have the reserved “RMT” designation, or you do not. Is that not clear enough? If a client prefers to work with an RMT rather than a non-RMT, they know exactly how to distinguish one from the other. What benefit does it provide to monopolize terms such as massage therapy, massage therapist, therapeutic massage, ect strictly for use by RMTs?
ReplyDeleteCMTO claims that they want to protect the public from being misled into thinking that a non-RMT is somehow an RMT. Again I ask...... isn’t having the reserved “RMT” designation clear enough? I believe playing symantics with terms actually has the opposite effect and confuses the issue as well as the public, and simply creates more rhetoric for beauracracy as well as the public to get itself lost into. Keep it simple!
Anyone who states that only “RMT’s” give good massage and safe treatments, is like saying that a Christian can only be a “Good” Christian if he follows the rules, studies the “book”, belongs to the church and pays their tithes. I am sure I don’t have to give anyone examples of all the people who qualified by that standard, who went on to steal, harm, rape, and in extreme cases, even kill people. Organization and education alone does not make for a better massage therapist or anything else, for that matter , just as titles do not bestow greatness.
There is an essential and fundamental element to massage therapy that cannot be learned through a book or study, as it comes soley from within. An “essence”, of who you are and your intentions to care and help, manifested and felt through physical touch. A treatment without this element may still feel physically pleasing, but on a deeper level is experienced as mechanical and hollow. In my opinion, it is this “essence” that the Brandon Raynor School trains students to tune into, develop and utilize in their massage treatments, as well as teaching all the various massage techniques. It is this quintessential element that is sadly not recognised or encouraged through typical massage colleges.
As for safety, which seems to be an issue that keeps coming up. If Brandon Raynor’s School is going to be ridiculed because certain RMT’s have decided that some of the schools’ teachings are unsafe..... where is the proof? How many people have claimed being harmed by Raynor Massage? How many court cases have there been of people getting hurt from Brandon Raynor’s Massage techniques? I see no evidence that the Brandon Raynor School of Massage is any more at risk of harming someone than any other massage school, so if a massage school is liable to be condemned simply due to a “potential” for harm, then perhaps all massage schools/colleges should be shut down.
There is room in this world for all types of healers. Be confident with who you are and what you practice without the need to condemn those on a different path.
I believe that the Raynor style definately has a deeply theraputic effect when practiced correctly, therefore should be classed as therapy. I don't think I would like to see perfectly good maseurs have to say they are massagoligists... A survey on the well being of massage customers should be carried out, and the group with the best results get to call themselves therapists ok?
ReplyDeleteIn regards to spinal manipulation etc please understand that chiropractic is only been around since 1895 yet people have been manipulating spines since ancient time.
ReplyDeleteSee this article
http://www.worldchiropracticalliance.org/consumer/history.htm
From that article I quote
"Herodotus, a contemporary of Hippocrates, gained fame curing diseases by correcting spinal abnormalities through therapeutic exercises. If the patient was too weak to exercise, Herodotus would manipulate the patient's spine. The philosopher Aristotle was critical of Herodotus' tonic-free approach because, "he made old men young and thus prolonged their lives too greatly." "
People have been doing stretches and spinal adjustments in many systems of medicine since ancient days and of course other people have objecting to them as you can see in the conflict between Aristotle and Herodotus.
It is not the abode of chiropractors or osteopaths alone to control this ancient art either. In fact, it is much better done by someone who understands the muscles of the body and the connection between tension in the muscles and the vertabre being pulled out of position.
Throughout Asian forms of massage, such as when I learned shiatsu, the practitioner would also do stretches and sometimes vertebrae would click back into place. This also occurs in yoga classes and many people can do this very easily to themselves.
This again should not be the reserve of one profession and again here we see the lack of holism that is creeping into medicine. One person deals with muscles, another person deals with bones, another person deals with the psyche but no one deals with the person as a whole.
Raynor massage and many other forms of traditional massage, such as shiatsu and Thai massage, are holistic treatments that deal with the complete person not just one part.
As I mentioned one part of the person affects the other. Repressed emotions can cause tight muscles which then cause vertebrae to be pulled out of position. The root cause is the emotions which may need to be dealt with, which will them release the muscles and then will release the bones.
"Success" as this blog is now linked to the "closed" discussion on the Ontario RMT facebook page.
ReplyDeleteNow if we can get the Ontario members to post their thoughts here in light of an open discussion then a balanced set of views could be heard in one forum.
I and others have posted onto the Ontario board but have been deleted, so it looks like maybe they don't really want other opinions.
Come on Ontario guys bring your thoughts to this blog, you are most welcome.
Ontario Massage Therapist Advocates The World Is Flat And Will Sue Anyone Who Suggests Otherwise.
ReplyDeleteSadly, I posted a polite response on their FB page too and they just deleted it. I even agreed with some of their points and could understand their point of view. Reading the comments by this group though, you really get a feeling that they are angry, narrow minded, frightened people. I am feeling their self righteous indignation all the way from the UK. All I commented on was my experience with massage and what it has done for me.
I was so ill and stressed. I really did not think I would benefit from a Raynor Deep Tissue Massage. How wrong I was! Thanks to the massage, I feel like a completely different/better human being. I have had Swedish massage before and it did nothing for me. It was comparable to being rubbed gently by a small vole or similar woodland creature. The long term benefits were so much greater having a Raynor massage than Swedish. People practice/train in Swedish massage for years and do not get the results I have experienced from a trainee Raynor massage therapist. I bet none of the RMT have had a Raynor massage. By the sounds of it they could all do with one!
Chiropractors in the UK have to attend a massage course as part of their training, ‘surprise surprise’ that the majority I have spoken to apply for the Raynor course. Even their comments and feedback matches my own. They opted out of a Swedish massage course because, “it doesn’t do anything”. Their feedback suggests to me that the Raynor course was very worthwhile and a great experience. How come professionals in the UK and the rest of the world seem to embrace the Raynor massage, whilst a small handful of “Professional” massage therapists from Ontario, approach it with such fear and distain? It doesn’t make any sense. I guess it boils down to one factor, as with everything in life, ‘money’.
My wife and her friends are Osteopaths. My wife loves me giving her Raynor Deep Tissue Massage. You should see the stress and tension that goes from her. I treat nurses too over the weekend. I must be doing a good job because they keep coming back and I only have done the intermediate course! I agree with the RMT that anatomy (learning Latin names of muscles and bones) is lacking. Only the basics are covered. What the Raynor course does excel at, is the technique and how to palpate. My wife was so jealous that the techniques covered were so strong. She also mentioned also that respectable courses go the other way too. The theory is very strong but the technique is lacking.
Pt 1
According to hypocritical posts from the ‘Ontario Massage Therapist Advocates ‘ Facebook page, Raynor massage therapists are unsafe due to them not being able to diagnose Osteoporosis etc. The thing is neither can they, unless they happen to have a CT machine or something similar to hand. Even Osteopaths have trouble testing for undiagnosed Osteoporosis. You can make a sensible judgment call if the patient is 50-60+. It would be a genetic issue more often than not, if the patient was say, in their twenties. We are trained to ask these sorts of questions before we even consider start treating. The RMT seems to think that we treat in a slap dash, unsafe way. If we are unsure of the condition we always refer the patient. That’s where the RMTs theory and knowledge does do them justice. They can find ways of ‘working around’ those conditions. The RMT seem to forget to mention that professionals such as Osteopaths, Chiropractors, Doctors and Nurses harm and hurt people every day. It surprisingly goes with the job. Everyone makes mistakes. Ironically, it is these professionals with massive egos who do the most damage to patients.
ReplyDeleteI’m sorry RMT, but I respect and value an Osteopaths/Chiropractors opinion WAY above yours. You have biased views which are based on hearsay and 4th-5th party opinion. Here’s an example…
Kelly Hill Waters, “well I think it was a student during one of his classes, supposedly you can learn massage in only 2 weeks without needing to know all that extra anatomy lingo (sarcasm)”
“I came across some of his videos, here's kind of a freaky one but I also found one where he was doing quick manipulations of the neck (chiro style) I don’t' think he has the training for that”
I wish this RMT group would think outside of the box. Their form of massage and teaching is not the be all and end all. Massage has been around significantly longer than this group. I don’t wish to take anything away from the RMT. They have invested a lot of time and money into what they want to do. It is just so surprising that there is SO much hate from these ‘professional’ health workers. Imagine if they actually took all this negative energy and applied it to their profession. They wouldn’t have to worry about how effective the Raynor massage is.
I can only conclude from all these events that the RMT is worried that the Brandon offers a form of bodywork of different styles which is effective and can be condensed into intensive courses. If the Raynor massage was not effective and proven to work, this organization would be dead a long time ago. Strange that it is going from strength to strength. Playground politics in massage therapy, who would of thought it?
I so wish everyone practicing massage the best of luck. Stop losing sight the main issue. We became massage therapists to make people feel better.
Love from the UK
Ed Taoka
Mike and Fi
ReplyDeleteit is comforting to hear for the first time (for me) that Raynor "therapists" are taught to leave injured areas to those with more expertise.
thank you for that post
Something we have been covering in our contraindications section for the last 10 or 12 years in our courses.
ReplyDeletewell that would be something worth posting to people who have concerns about your extremely brief "training". An important fact like this is much more worthy of commenting on than say............. having other Raynor people creep fb pages, pull up old and irrelevant posts etc. If you have information to share in support of your therapy - such as the post I gave positive mention to perhaps re-think your "methods" of defending your approach as opposed to "attacking" those who question your methods.
ReplyDeleteI think the people attacking our methods should know more about what we teach before they attack us.
ReplyDeleteI dont think what they are doing is any way professional, especially when they use such derogatory terminology such as "slithering out" etc Not a single one of them has done our course or had a massage froms someone that has done our course, so what makes them feel they are such experts?
It is one thing to question our methods and it is another to be down right rude and unprofessional such as one of your colleagues use of the word slithers out from the PCCA order.
Ms Kalpin is that something you would consider professional? Would you like to be referred to in that way?
Certainly it would also seem to be colleagues of yours that have started any "attack'. We have merely been teaching our courses and getting on with our lives until your colleagues have attacked us.
I am amazed that some of these RMTs that have done 3 years of training don't even know how to address practitioners of other modalities in a respectful way.
Anyway, we can all be guilty of letting our emotions run out of control and saying things in ignorance or anger that wasn't thought through properly.
I am certainly willing to let go of any offense that would legitimately have been taken by your colleagues unprofessional utterances.
Lets hope we can all move forward into more respectful and professional dialogue.
Yours sincerely
Brandon Raynor
PS All of the information about our courses is clearly available on http://www.brandonraynor.com
ReplyDeleteI notice that their the listing from the Ontario Massage Therapy Advocates facebook page of June 15 entitled Brandon Raynor Slithers Loose from his Ontario Court Order has been removed although it is still in the cached version of google.
ReplyDeleteFunny because my understanding was that the PCCA understood and we clarified we were working within the context on Ontario law.
Where does the slither bit come in and why have they removed it from their post? I think it is good that they did but it does seem to cast some questions on the professionalism of this group.
Why does a so called professional group talk about other health professionals who are operating legitimately, but obviously from a different philosophical angle like this?
Maybe Karen could answer that as I notice she posts a lot on their website and of course we have welcomed her to participate in this debate unlike on their website that claims that anyone interested in the field of massage therapy can join they have stopped us from participating in their debates.
Karen, why has the decision been made to stop active debate on the Ontario Massage Therapy Advocates webpage?
on the info section of your groups facebook page it says
"Articles presented are for professional development, casual interest & critical review of controversial health topics."
Hmm what does critical review of controversial health topics mean when any dissenting point of view is silenced?
looking forward to your answers Karen
We welcome any comments on this site that are done in a professional and respectful manner by either side of the debate
Mr. Raynor
ReplyDeleteMy point in the above post is:
while many people have very strong feelings about the legitimacy of your courses we all have busy lives. It is not realistic to expect that people are going to take the time to peruse your information to learn about these teachings (contraindications to be referred to people with higher levels of learning)
I just wanted to point out that your "supporters" would support your cause more effectively by posting this type of INFORMATION as opposed to "defending/defaming". People may have used inappropriate language regarding your services = and as you said - we are ALL guilty at some point or another in our lives in these days of instant communiciation of posting items - making poorly thought out replies etc.
I think that if you have "safety" rules in place in regards to your very brief training I would personally encourage your associates - esp. Mr. Masson - to stop pulling up old posts etc. out of context and focus on educating people outside of your modality about the services and training you offer. I will be frank and state that I personally still have serious issues with you being allowed to run your courses in a regulated province - that said - having your supporters be more professional and more selective in the issues they choose to address on public venues would be in YOUR interest. Trying to give fair chances for all involved in this debate to state their point of view WITHOUT defaming, debasing or insulting others
respecfully
K Kalpin
Part 1 of 2
ReplyDeleteKaren,
It's nice to see that you are showing some decency here as opposed to your previous posts on the FEEDS site.
Remember how I even came to be involved in this discussion was because one of my massage treatment videos on Tarah was linked to and heavily criticized on the FEEDS page. You were quite eager to show that in this video the client was crying, screaming, etc.. You put forth the argument that harm was being done to the client and you just assumed that the client was in danger.
I respectfully asked that if you were going to show any videos of my treatments that you also show the corresponding client testimonial that we also uploaded so you can hear from the clients own lips what they felt about their treatment.
For the record here is Tarah's written account of that session and the weeks that followed...
Tarah Keyser Hilbrand
June 21 at 9:46am
Karen-I do believe you are talking about me!
If you really want to know go to the source instead of making your own assumptions. I have had severe tension causing pain in my legs, hips and lower back for years now... nothing that any M.D. or any other therapy has worked besides my Raynor treatment. I have had cortizone shots and pain pills prescribed and over the counter, an MRI that showed nothing and because the pain was so bad I would go to the Dr. crying. They gave me some anti depressants too. I couldn't lay on my back or my sides for too long and I would wake up with extremely torturous hip, leg and foot cramps every morning. I looked up and asked Dr.'s what I could do for the cramp and everything I tried did not work.
I have been receiving massage from a Raynor trained student for the past two years and it has been the only thing keeping me going. I was so intrigued by her style, I had had other types of massages and they just didn't compare, I had to learn this myself. I have some back round in anatomy and biology with humans, plants and animals. I know the holistic approach is the best way for me.
When I started my classes I knew I needed a full on treatment because I knew my problem was seriously emotional and psychological. I had been carrying around a ton of anger, frustration, feelings of betrayal, sadness and grief and it was hurting me mentally and physically. I asked Terry for this and told him I want it gone.... I know I would have been devistated if I did not take this opportunity. I had so much tension in those areas that Terry knew it was causing a great deal of pain.
The emotional release that you are referring to... The "oww"....if you had any idea the amount of anger I held for so many years getting rid of that in no way possible would have been easy, I was not in pain once the tension was released, he stopped and there was no pain at all.
reviewing your post Mr. Raynor
ReplyDeleteI am not an administrator of the "advocates" page. I have made clear that I am not personally an RMT. I am a long term RMT client so do have a lot of knoweldge of this field for a "layperson". I joined this advocates page because they post a LOT of interesting information from very legitimate sites that is science based and covers many very intersting topics - including topics which directly relate to my personal line of work.
The site does clearly state that it is "science based with a skeptical twist" so it should not surprise you that this site is science based and has issues with unregulated "alternative methods" I feel the advocates site is clear about their goals and agenda. I cannot answer your querie as to why the "advocates" page has removed you as I am simply a professional who came across this page and found that if offered solid, scientific research into areas directly related to my profession
From my personal experience with the advocates page I feel sure that if you are committed to posting INFORMATION and NOT accusations that you could continue to post there. ONLY MY OPINION - I have no clue as to who the adminstrator(s) of this page are but I am willing to bet that your comments, if professional and not confrontational would be welcomed as your controversial courses are of extreme interest to RMTs in our province
Part 2 of 2 - Continuation of Tarah's comments..
ReplyDeleteWhat I went through you may never be able to understand but I released a whole rainbow of emotions that day and it felt good. In those videos I even had an emotional release where I was laughing which I did a lot of laughing to during my courses and getting massages from other students. I was ready for this and trusted Terry and this is why this massage was so successful, I can not thank him enough. At this point now a little over a month later I do not suffer from any of the pain, leg cramps, the migraines or the constant cloudiness in my head that I had for so many years. It was like the ton of bricks had been taken off of me and I can think so clear now and deal with some situations in my life that caused so much anger and hatred in me in a more positive way and it is wonderful!
Terry is one of the most wonderful people I have ever met he has left a mark on my life for ever. For surely marked as a most positive impact!!! He has wonderful energy and is extremely intelligent. My husband is even so thankful for what he has done for me (as he too asked Terry to help me).
From what I see here too there is a lot of negativity and bad energy in these discussions and so much anger how can anyone be effective at massage with all this anger and negative energy?
As for the client care you are wrong and it is a PASS! Terry was well aware of my pain level and at no time did I ever ask him to stop nor was I ever hurt or injured during this treatment!!!!
I think we need to open the box and learn from each other I don't understand the fear you all possess but I can clearly see it is self created. If you really know nothing about it you shouldn't knock it. Try getting a treatment and see for yourselves, just as the public would. We are trained to treat as needed some people want a full on treatment and some don't. We all know this and are well aware of if we are hurting or injuring people. We are trained to always ask our clients the level of pressure we are applying and we do not go beyond what they cannot handle or anything that will cause injury!
If there is any other questions about my treatment anyone is more than welcome to contact me through my facebook, I am more than happy to contribute any information needed. So stop the assumptions and go to the source.
Karen: You can clearly see from her own admission that was the best modality of healing for her. If you honestly believe in protecting the public from harm then you MUST not petition against our methods. THEY WORK! People not only feel better after we work on them but they ARE better. Mind, Body, working as one.
A complete holistic approach to health is "therapy" and the benefits to Tarah and thousands of others have been "therapeutic".
The RMT designation after a registered practitioner's name is more than enough to distinguish themselves and their level of training. No one wants to take that away from them.
What we teach literally helps thousands of people change their health and lives for the better. Don't be so quick to judge that only an RMT can provide safe and proper massage therapy.
Raynor Massage is here to stay and gaining more popularity and support every day. It Works!
re: Tarah you have just proven my point about being careful in what you post. You are "paraphrasing" my comments INNACURATELY and this is not helping your "cause " in any way. I DID NOT SAY that "harm was being done to the client" I QUESTIONED the reactions I saw on the video.It would behoove you to carefully read what people post and NOT to paraphrase postings from your own "interpretation" This only adds to lack of legitimacy for the "Raynor" people.
ReplyDeleteAs for your comments that it is nice for me to "finally show some decency here" again - disrepsepctul and judgemental. I am entitled to my opinions and concerns and this type of "language" only serves IN MY OPINION to show you as being highly indoctrinated.
Think before you type.
Okay Karen, for the record this is EXACTLY what you said in reference to that massage treatment on Tarah.
ReplyDeleteKaren Kalpin:
"uh just watched that again - not sure about "emotional release" I swear she was screaming "OOOOWWW" maybe she was just in PAIN? Not ONCE did her "therapist" stop to ask "are you ok?" Client care: FAIL"
Now that you know the facts about the treatment you can rest your mind about it knowing with complete confidence that Tarah is okay and better than ever. We both thank you for your concern.
I WOULD LOVE to have the time to go back and re-read every post every person ever made. See above - I did NOT ACCUSE anyone of causing this woman pain I QUESTIONED - again scroll up to your own post "maybe she was just in pain?" the question mark at the end of this sentence clearly states A QUESTION NOT AN ACCUSTION OR ASSUMPTION. Basic punctuation. I am STILL DISTURBED by the fact that nowhere in that video did we see the "therapist" to use your terms ASK the client on the table AT THE TIME if she was in pain. I am very glad to hear that she was not but................ what if she was? We all (I would assume) know about the issues of "balance of power" between a client and a therapist which is the whole purpose of the CMTO regulations = which are very strict from my "layperson's knowledge " regarding not only informed consent but continual and ongoing feedback from the client WHILE ON THE TABLE.
ReplyDeleteSo I stand by my original post which you were thoughtful enough to pull up for me that the client care aspect is a FAIL. The therapist IN MY LAYPERSON'S OPINION needs to continuously check with the client ON THE TABLE re: levels of pain/discomfort
It is not necessarily a fail because there is spoken and unspoken communication and empathy is a very important part of a treatment.
ReplyDeleteIf Tareh felt Terry empathizing with her, which she obviously did, then client care would have to be said to be passed. She was well aware by this stage of a course ( I believe it was Day 10 of the course, correct me if I'm wrong Terry or Tareh) that people can undergo emotional releases during the treatment and that at any time she could stop the treatment. I believe she actually welcomed the opportunity to get rid of some of this old emotional "baggage" and this was clear between her and Terry.
I would think that Tareh would have felt that there was always a communication open between the practitioner and the client.
I agree with you that "The therapist IN MY LAYPERSON'S OPINION needs to continuously check with the client ON THE TABLE re: levels of pain/discomfort "
However I believe that this checking can be an unspoken thing relating to the empathy between the client and the practitioner.
I believe that's what happened here and I would therefore have to say client Care : Excellent but really the judge of that should not be me, you or even Terry, it should be Tareh. If she felt cared for and empathized with and in control of her treatment then really that's all that matters
I suppose empathy is one major thing that is hard to measure in a "scientific" way and that is another reason why we promote that massage is an art form because subjective things like empathy are very important in being a good massage therapist, yet hard to give marks to on an exam paper as opposed to knowing latin names for muscles, which is a simple pass or fail mark.
Empathy is more difficult to assess and subject to differing opinions etc however I would say it is one of the most if not the most important quality of being a good massage therapist
Hi Karen
ReplyDeleteJust in response to this statement here from your earlier post...
"My point in the above post is:
while many people have very strong feelings about the legitimacy of your courses we all have busy lives. It is not realistic to expect that people are going to take the time to peruse your information to learn about these teachings (contraindications to be referred to people with higher levels of learning)."
I think it is definitely realistic and definitely professional that if a group such as this Ontario Massage Advocates is going to post derogatory comments about another group of professional health practitioners that they do their research very thoroughly.
They should not just presume things. People should be very careful before they launch a smear campaign against another group of people, without doing any research. In my opinion part of being a professional is that before you accuse another professional of something such as malpractice, or any other serious complaint, that your facts are 100% in order and you can not make the excuse that you are too busy because if your that busy don't make the accusation in the first place.
Slandering another person or group of people is not something that should be done lightly. If they have differences of opinion between their so called " scientific" approach to massage and our more "Eastern" or "holistic" approach to massage then these issues should be dealt with in a respectful way.
If these people believe that 2200 hours of training is required to be a massage therapist then they should still be respectful to the people that believe that to be a good massage therapist requires 30,000 hours or the people that believe it takes a lifetime, or the people that believe it takes 100 hours or the people that believe it takes 500 hours or the people that believe it can be a natural gift.
People, especially professional people, should be able to disagree with one another in a respectful way without resorting to slandering a person's character. Issues should be able to be debated without personal insults.
I am always here to answer any questions that they may he about my courses. They have never contacted me to clarify anything yet.
Therefore if they are making accusations based on misinformation and lack of proper research then it is entirely their responsibility to have the facts before making a judgment.
That is real professionalism and something that should be expected of a group of people claiming to hold higher standards of training than other people.
So far titles of official blog release that they have released such as Brandon Raynor slithers loose from court orders or whatever are childish and display a lot of vindictiveness and unnecessary hostility and aggression and from my point of view display a high level of immaturity and school yard like behavior that is not becoming of people claiming to represent a professional group of people.
That's my opinion but maybe Professional standards are lower in Canada than the rest of the world.
Actually Karen in most instances when I am massaging I rarely ever have to ask how much pressure is being applied. I am highly conscious of the whole massage experience because my entirety of focus (sight, touch, hearing, empathy, metaphysical "senses") are keenly tuned in to the client. The Raynor style of massage is a symbiotic partnership where the practitioner and the client are working together as ONE. We are taught to get into this space with the client quite early in the course and I believe that is why many people feel more "connected" with a Raynor massage. Many RMT massages have been referred to as "mechanical" and "devoid of feeling or connection".
ReplyDeleteAs Brandon has said, massage therapy in its truest essence is an art form and communication on that level goes beyond words and even thought.
It is quite beneficial to clear ones own mind. Have you had any personal experience with meditation or yoga where silent body communication is developed?
Karen I have extended to you an invitation to receive a free Raynor massage from me but you have declined. You can clearly see from the responses here from those who have received a Raynor treatment that none have been harmed but greatly benefited from the experience.
With a heart-felt understanding of where you are coming from I would sincerely love to show you what it is that we do by encouraging you to accept a Raynor massage treatment from me. How you personally feel afterwards would be the true litmus test of the effectiveness of Raynor massage. Will you accept this offer?
Terry: respectfully NO WAY! but thanks for the offer. this does not mean I am "afraid of you beig right" in anticipation of your next post
ReplyDeletebut
the video I HAVE SEEN of these treatments leaves me feeling extremely apprehensive and frightened of the work you do. I am guessing you will use the term "frightened" against me in some way and you are free to do so. I believe in science based practises - which is my right - and the type of "treatment" along with the severely limited training time gives me NO DESIRE to prove myself right or justified that I need to expose myself to something I personally feel is unsafe just to satisfy you or prove a point. I am entitled to my opinon, have tried to show respect for yours - but your "put up or shut up" see previous post of yours on the"advocates page" is not respectful of my right to exercise my freedom of choice based on the information and videos I have seen. There IS AN IMBALANCE OF POWER between a "therapist " and client, something recognized by CMTO ACCREDITED THERAPISTS
Since your "modality" does not acknowledge this dynamic there is no point in discussing it with you but thank you kindly for the offer. Perhaps others who approach maassage from an evidence based perspecitve may be interested in subjecting themslelves to this type of treatment in the ineterest of gaining knowledge? But........ not me
Karen, you have certainly defined and made clear to us the parameters of your perspectives and size of your box. I sincerely hope that one day you will attain a higher level of enlightenment. Until then, thank you for your insights.
ReplyDeleteWhere have we ever said we don't recognize the imbalance of power in a therapeutic relationship. We cover this extensively in all of our classes.
ReplyDeleteAll we have said is that communication can be both spoken and unspoken. How you draw the inference that we don't recognize the parameters of a professional relationship are a strange line of reasoning.
What basis do you have to say we don't acknowledge this dynamic?
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletewell said Brandon! again why so much hate Karen? that to me was a cheap shot and unnecessary.
ReplyDeleteOntario does not ban any other practioners, they merely limit the use of the term "Massage Therapist". There is indeed many different types of massage in Ontario as well as B.C. and people that prefer the different types of massage have the option to receive them. I'm sure that the if there was clinical proof in a widespread study, that the CMTO approved, that these other types of massage were beneficial to many types of injuries and ailments, that they would also be included in the school's studies. You seem so determined to make RMTs look unaccepting, but seem to forget how long it's taken massage to be accepted into the professional world. Massage in its most westernized form is just barely being accepted into the medical circle, just give it a chance to receive that positive feedback we know it will as we have seen the benefits of massage. I'm sure as the world is progressing and beginning to accept things that were previously thought to outlandish to accept, that all the varying forms of massage will be included.
ReplyDeleteOh and also as and RMTs we have to have CEU's, which I'm sure you know about, and can take courses to receive the required certification. I'm sure you'll be happy to know that although I don't know the extent of what is offered as of yet, I do know an RMT that has taken a thai-on-the-table course, and another that has taken ayurvedic massage.
To the impostor posing as another Brandon Raynor...
ReplyDeleteBy not using your real name and choosing to confuse things by stating alternate viewpoints to the real Brandon Raynor's you have nullified your entire argument. Own up to your thoughts by using your real name.
As for helping a client work through their own limitations of what they perceive to be real pain or just the sensation of pain I stand by my approach. You haven't had a Raynor massage so you wouldn't "get it". It is certainly not an imbalance of power but an empathetic coaching through to give your client's own mind and willpower back to them. If you don't understand the process and have never experienced that technique before than don't argue against it. I am 100% fully conscious and aware of what my client is experiencing. There is never any disconnect in my treatments so I know with complete surety how much pressure I am applying and just as importantly how much they can actually receive. Plus I constantly modify and vary the tension to never cause "real" pain.
Tarah's testimonial is credible evidence. As a matter of fact it's really the best evidence there is. If some RMT's aren't able (or willing) to take their clients to where Raynor Massage Graduates can then they may have limited results.
Fear of limitations holds people back in their healing. That goes for the practitioner and client alike.
Everything I could possibly say here with your very limited perception will just sound esoteric to you so I owe you nothing. When your mind opens and you see things for how they really are rather than how you want them to be then we can carry on this conversation. You don't understand the process and you refuse to want to learn it. You would just rather be ignorant and refute and claim to its validity. Tarah had ultimate power in the treatment. It's all in her testimonial and her many comments of confirmation here and on the other facebook pages. She asked me to take her to her threshold because she understood that is what is necessary to heal those deep wounds. Don't take my word for, but certainly take the clients. Grow up and use your real name to state your case otherwise you just look immature about everything. Come to my class and get a massage from me. The rules are come with an open mind and follow the coaching and breathe. Yes it may feel a bit uncomfortable at times but the end result is definitely worth the effort.
ReplyDeleteIf someone wants to post a comment here then certain guidelines will have to be followed.
ReplyDeleteFirst
This issue is about massage therapy and its regulations. Please don't branch off the topic or go into slander people or your posts will be removed.
Second
Don't use other peoples names such as the person that was using my name to post things. I have removed these posts. You may repost them under your own name if you wish.
Thanks Yellow for your comments.
ReplyDeleteWhat we are debating here I whether one group of people with a particular type of therapy and philosophy on massage therapy should own a generic word like massage therapy.
No one group owns the term artist and restricts other people from using that term who have a different style of art. Massage is indeed a healing art and there are many styles of this art form from all over the world and all pretty much could have some valididty to someone.
No one group should own the term massage therapy or massage therapist
if they want to use the term registered massage therapist or registered massage therapy then I may be more open to that but not generic terms like massage therapy and massage therapists.
If you look at wikipedia you will see many style so of massage therapy listed
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massage
and here are some definitions of massage therapy http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=VBR&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&defl=en&q=define:Massage+therapy&sa=X&ei=tp8wTIjQKJiekQXU4tyCBA&ved=0CB8QkAE
Let me copy that here
ReplyDelete# Massage is the manipulation of superficial layers of muscle and connective tissue to enhance the function and promote relaxation and well-being. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massage_therapy
# uses touch and tissue manipulation. There are many different forms including relaxation massage, sports massage, remedial massage, Shiatsu, and reflexology.
www.thenewmedicine.org/resources/definitions
# this treatment method involves the manipulation of the soft tissues of the body (skin, muscles and the structures contained therein) for therapeutic effect. Massage theraphy is believed to create a feeling of wellness through assisting blood flow. ...
headache-help.org/glossary-headache-terms
# Massage is a systematic manual application of pressure and movement to the soft tissue of the body-- the skin, muscles, tendons, ligaments, and fascia (the membrane surrounding muscles and muscle groups). ...
www.camreports.hs.columbia.edu/diseases.html
# A general term to describe various bodywork techniques.
www.garyflegal.com/glossary.htm
# Systematic, therapeutic stroking, rubbing, or kneading of the skin and underlying muscle and other soft tissue of the recipient for the purpose of physical and psychological relaxation, improvement of circulation, relief of sore muscles, and other therapeutic effects (1).
www.nwhealth.edu/healthyU/liveNaturally/gloss.html
# This is a general term covering a variety of disciplines for the manipulation of soft tissue for therapeutic purposes - Swedish, Shiatsu, trigger point, neuromuscular - with roots in both Eastern and Western cultures. Massage improves the function of the body's connective tissues and/or muscles. ...
www.tlccenter.com/glossary.ivnu
# A wide variety of physical manipulative techniques designed to promote relaxation, thereby treating conditions exacerbated by tension such as headaches, insomnia, and post-surgical trauma.
www.enotes.com/public-health-encyclopedia/alternative-complementary-integrative-medicine
# a range of therapeutic processes that involves the practice of kneading a persons soft tissue and muscles, there are various forms of massage therapy
www.1sthealthinsurancequotes.com/holistic.html
# Deep or light pressure applied to the musculoskeletal system for the purpose of muscle relaxation, myofascial release, increasing joint function, increasing lymphatic drainage, realigning scar tissue, or increasing local blood flow.
www.adlergiersch.com/musculoskeletal-clarifying-terms
# A profession in which the practitioner applies manual techniques, and may apply adjunctive therapies, with the intention of positively affecting the health and well being of the client.
www.bouldertherapeutics.com/terminology.html
# Massage therapy is a general term for health and healing practices involving touch and movement, which are based in massage and related manual techniques.
www.massagebyjeremy.com/glossary.html
All of these definitions state it is a general term to cover all modalities including Eastern Western sports shiatsu etc
So why has one group hijacked a general term like "massage therapy" for their own use and confused the public by not allowing other people who legitimately practice massage therapy to use the term?
ReplyDeleteAre they scared of competing with other massage therapists on the open market where the public can decide which style of massage therapy they like the best?
First the fact that you erased my posts shows extreme fear on your end. Neither one of you can answer any of my questions because you can't and have no merit to back it up.
ReplyDeleteActually, most of what is said up above is not true. Brandon states that the colleges in Canada do not at all emphasize on holistic medicine. Actually, in the 2200 hr course, I was given two 40 hour courses on neuromeridian stimulation where I was taught the entire meridian acupuncture system and energy techniques to apply them. I was also given two 40 hour blocks of osteopathic myofascial release. We went into great depth on energy, holistics, etc. etc. But unless you took the course, you wouldn't know that. Having that been said, shouldn't you research your facts first?
In your advanced therapy course you teach controlled acts which are in fact not only controlled acts in Canada but NOrth America and worldwide. I am talking about Grade 5 high velocity thrusts. About 9 years ago, a Certified Chiropractor in Toronto negligently gave a high velocity thrust to a patient without assessing their cervical spine. This patient ended up with an immediate stroke which resulted in paralysis. When we deal with issues such as controlled acts we need to protect the public first. This has nothing to do with being "threatened" by competition. Quite the opposite in fact. There will always be someone injured and there will always be clients in pain, and there will always be business. In my eyes, the greater progress and respect that is given to the profession, the more people will receive the profession as a such, and therefore, I, and every legitimate massage therapist have a greater chance of having success in the profession. A good example of this would be Quebec. People who have only studied the 300 hour course in QC have a very hard time finding clients, because people want to see a fully certified therapist because their insurance company will only reimburse a fully certified therapist. As well, someone with a 300 hr background cannot treat and therefore, people with serious injury will only go to someone who "knows what they are doing". 2200 hr therapists in QC are extremely booked far far ahead of time, and in fact have to turn away clients. I have no lack of clients. I treat Olympic athletes, NHL players, Alpine ski team, Cirque du Soleil, politicians and high profile media figures. I have referrals from Medical Doctors who have never met me or spoken to me. This was only possible by my educational background and applied experience. I do not massage at poker tournaments, I provide medical treatments and I am able to write medical-legal reports and speak the same lingo as the traditional medical world AS WELL as the holistic world. I have studied in length meridians, acupuncture, reiki, shiatsu. etc. etc. and incorporate all aspects of therapy in my practice.
Maybe you should ask the Olympic association why they have such restrictions on who they hire as a massage therapist, because in fact, the global association for the Olympics WORLDWIDE has nearly the same requirements as Canadian colleges. This does not include graduates from a 5 or 10 day course.
. Hundreds upon thousands of people have worked diligently over several decades (not just a couple of colleges) to bring the profession at the level of respect that it has attained to allow us to treat groups such as professional athletes, that have convinced companies to provide insurance to people to cover the cost of treatment (not everyone can afford a massage, but as a therapist I believe everyone should have the right to access of this medicine and not be duped to pay out of pocket), etc. etc. Now when one individual works sooooo hard and expends their chi in not a positive way but a negative one, I can only view this as narcisstic egoism. You are not fighting the colleges, you are clearly fighting the insurance companies, but this would be absolutely too grand of a task to defeat and would not promote your school in anyway, so you use the "evil monopoly of a couple of colleges" rant to promote your own hidden interests. PLEASE, BRANDON, you have no valid argument whatsoever. I beg you to provide me atleast one legitimate example of where an RMT has actually harmed the public. Because then you would have a purpose to your plight. Because if you do swear by your own code of ethics which states
ReplyDelete"I shall continually strive to increase the recognition and respect of the profession"
AND
" I shall demonstrate commitment to provide the highest quality massage therapy possible and to serve the best interests of my clients at all times"
How is belittling and slandering colleges in Canada abiding by these ethics? How does claiming that RMT's in Canada are 200% less effective than your graduates profess to increase the respect of the profession? How does a protest trying to deregulate massage have any other hidden agenda other than promoting your school and encourage enrollment for your own greedy monetary agenda? If we could use the same parallel that you use to say that regulation is "evil" and greedy and apply it to traditional medicine, we could go back 200 years ago and see that a medical doctor would remove the sciatic nerve for sciatica, not knowing that this would render the client paralysed. However, regulation and advancements on technology and knowledge has prevented something like this from happening. Unless you are only out to make money for yourself which is against good chi, energy and balance, why not put your efforts into something more positive?
Another point I would like to make is I recently discovered that your graduates cannot join ANY Canadian Massage Associations, that most clients receiving a treatment from one of your graduates cannot get reimbursement from their insurance, that they will end up having to pay out of pocket. First of all, having the client believe they can receive their money back and learn afterward they cannot is highly misleading, very unprofessional, as well in any country this is called "PRIVATE BUSINESS". Don't you think Revenue Canada would have an interest on the lack of paper trail you are encouraging?? Maybe you should do a freedom ride against paying taxes?
ReplyDeleteWhen you say Western medicine does not readily accept the existence of chi or life force in general, how do you explain the numerous colleges that offer Acupuncture and Reiki, and the numerous insurance companies that support this holistic practice? You have not done your research.
Canada does not own the term "Massage Therapist". The entire world uses the term. What you should be corrected in here is that the 3 regulatory bodies/provinces in Canada own the term "RESGISTERED". But of course, saying the opposite is very much in fact a promotional platform for a 5 day course which is "fighting the evils" of what you claim is a so-called monopoly on a word. How do you explain the US using "Licensed Massage Therapist"?
Having a massage and treating are two different things. I agree that to massage it is important to have a good touch, and having techniques behind you to back that up. However when you enter the spectrum of treatment and begin to apply deep tissue techniques without knowing anatomy, without orthopedic assessment, you run the risk of injury. You cannot heal a disc herniation with intuition and deep tissue techniques, in fact you could render the client dysfunctional, or worse give them the result that the chiro gave to his patient in Toronto. Maybe you should tromp on the Chiro world as well and try to deregulate them? How about, there is no need to sit through 4 years of chiro school when you can learn it all in 5 days?
Regulation does not come about because of a few colleges that want to make money. Regulation occurs when something injurious or harmful has been done, and enough cases have been reported and therefore there needs to be a body to protect the public from harm. When you say that since stress and tension are a predictable human event and therefore adding regulation is an unnecessary cost to the treatment, (Let's keep in mind regulation allows the graduate to join an association and therefore provides up to $2 million in liability insurance to protect the public) is the same thing as saying that if I put a blindfold on and stick myself in a 6 tonne hunk of metal, and go soaring down the highway, the predictable human event here would be that I would get in to a car accident and perhaps kill someone, but don't regulate driving, or provide me with insurance for the sake of the person injured. That is absolutely rediculous.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteYou profess to say that anyone should be able to be a healer and provide a treatment.
ReplyDeleteI say that anyone should have access to the medical benefit of treatment. Your belief has a monetary greedy agenda to put more money in the holistic providers' pocket and yourself. My belief is to put more money in the receivers pocket (the client), and in this regard the therapist has to have a certified background consistent with what the location that client lives has deemed or legislated to be necessary. I want to provide a massage, I want my client to be able to afford it so I don't inflict undue stress and tension on the client that has lost the cost of treatment thinking it will be reimbursed.
And if I was "threatened" by the competition of your school and only out to keep the money in the colleges and RMT's pockets, I would not have spent 2 years of my life and several thousands of dollars learning the amazing courses that I did. I have applied all anatomy, physiology etc. I have learned. CLIENTS CONTINUOUSLY ASK QUESTIONS AND I AM ABLE TO ANSWER THEM. This is a part of being a competent therapist. Diabetics, athletes and cancer patiens all have various effects from the kreb's cycle. I am able to discern which treatment or lack thereof is appropriate for each of these individuals, and I am able to explain and answer the questions of my clients. Your graduates will not. Your graduates will have to tell their client to find the info on their own.
Nor will your graduates be able to be hired by professional groups. Nor will the traditonal medicine world be able to take you seriously. In Europe the traditional and holistic world has been working hand in hand for years. North America is working hard to achieve this but is not quite near that yet. In European hospitals, you will find Acupuncturists and Lymph Drainage Specialists working hand in hand with traditonal medical doctors. I dream of North America someday being the same as Europe, because for the benefit of the client/patient/public I believe is imperative to the human body to include both spectrums of medicine for recovery. DEREGULATING massage pushes us further from that dream. It would make the traditional medical world not take the holistic world seriously. DO you even understand the realm of what you are implying? You are not for the benefit of the profession, you are for the benefit of Brandon Raynors pocketbook only, there is no other reason to your absurdity.
And like I said earlier, I am in NO WAY threatened by your school. I too swore to a code of ethics and it was to protect the public and progress the highest level of education and respect for the profession. I don't go to a FOREIGN muslim country and try to wear a skirt in public and try to change the laws in that country where thousands upon millions of people have deemed the law to be that a woman covers her body. There is something incredibly wrong when only ONE person makes so much effort and wastes soooo much chi and balance to reverse the cost, and work that millions of people have put in place. This is ego, narcissism and need serious psychological and clinical help. North America is legislated.....get over it.
We are not scared to publish your comments.
ReplyDeleteWe have merely laid down that if you want to publish something on our forum that you have the respect for others not to use their name. I have no idea what sort of bizarre headspace you are in that you feel a need to use my name to post things under.
Why do you feel the need to impersonate my name when you comment?
Some how I think your comment that you know what are controlled acts worldwide is a pretty farfetched idea.
You think their is a one world government with the same laws worldwide?
Here's what you said "About 9 years ago, a Certified Chiropractor in Toronto negligently gave a high velocity thrust to a patient without assessing their cervical spine."
It shows how dangerous manipulating spines without knowing the muscles of the body and the whole picture is. Chiropractic is another profession that looks at parts of the body in isolation and that is dangerous. Muscles and bones work together and a person needs to be treated a a whole person not just a spine.
It's interesting that certification doesn't help stop that.
We have no shortage of clients either and also we have no shortage of students. That's why my school has expanded from teaching in my lounge room in Brisbane to teaching in about 20 to 30 cities worldwide.
No one, in 10 years of me teaching and having 5000 to 8000 graduates worldwide has ever been seriously hurt from our massage. All you fear mongering is just in your mind and the example you gave of the chiropractor as a justification for regulations doesn't wear because he was regulated and also we have a different philosophy than chiropractors anyway.
So why are you only posting HALF of my comments if you are not afraid of truth and exposure..... still haven't answered basically ANY of my questions, and furthermore I am very happy you just contradicted yourself yet again....it's a symptom of the personality disorder actually:
ReplyDelete"It shows how dangerous manipulating spines without knowing the muscles of the body and the whole picture is"
And yet you fail to teach your students anatomy while encouraging high velocity thrusts and peripheral joint mobilisations....
Furthermore you have no idea if anyone has been hurt from the treatments since you have no concrete certification title. Sometimes it's a massage therapist, sometimes it's a raynor therapist, sometimes it's a natural therapist, sometimes it's a massage practitioner. How would anyone possibly be able to track and sue on that??? You are seriously seriously in fear of my comments, and if you aren't then don't censor half of them to suit your needs.
ReplyDeleteYou say
ReplyDelete"Another point I would like to make is I recently discovered that your graduates cannot join ANY Canadian Massage Associations, that most clients receiving a treatment from one of your graduates cannot get reimbursement from their insurance, that they will end up having to pay out of pocket."
Yes people have to pay out of pocket for a massage just like they do have to pay for everything else they receive like health food, shoes cars etc. Canada isn't a totally socialist country is it. People pay for services still.
You also go on to say
"First of all, having the client believe they can receive their money back and learn afterward they cannot is highly misleading, very unprofessional, as well in any country this is called "PRIVATE BUSINESS"'
Um yes Private business isn't a swear word is it?
Has anybody misled someone saying they can get their money back from insurance companies?
There are, I have heard, some insurance companies that do provide money back from Raynor massage but because I have just heard this from a student statement just seems like another unsubstantiated accusation with no basis in fact.
Here's an article I wrote about the absurdity of insurance covering massage therapy as a preventative medicine anyway. It was originally written for the Australia massage industry but can be similarly used for the Canadian industry
http://www.naturalhealthweb.com/articles/Raynor2.html
Heres another bizarre quote from you....
ReplyDelete"When you say Western medicine does not readily accept the existence of chi or life force in general, how do you explain the numerous colleges that offer Acupuncture and Reiki, and the numerous insurance companies that support this holistic practice? You have not done your research. "
Did I ever say no massage colleges offer these courses. No I said they were usually optional extras for many massage courses in Canada and my quote that you quote is that "Western medicine doesn't accept "chi"". I never mentioned massage colleges don't teach these subjects.
So your line of reasoning is that because some massage colleges in Canada teach acupuncture that Western medicine accepts "chi". Hmm I guess you never studied logical reasoning.
Here's another quote from you
ReplyDelete"Canada does not own the term "Massage Therapist". The entire world uses the term. What you should be corrected in here is that the 3 regulatory bodies/provinces in Canada own the term "RESGISTERED"."
Thats not correct at all - in BC and Ontario the use of the term massage therapist and massage therapy are also regulated whether the term registered is used or not. I'm sure your other Registered massage therapy allies will agree with me on that point otherwise there would be no need for this blog.
See here under the Ontario section
http://www.health.gov.bc.ca/leg/hpc/review/part-i/scope-massage.html#IC
for back up that the term massage therapy is a reserved term in Ontario
I see, a school that has been around for several years teaching 3 years of Eastern medicine = Canada doesn't accept chi, and your school comes in for 5 days to save the day and help the ignorant Canadians who can't understand eastern philosophy themselves and make their own decisions....wow, this is highly egotistical, and very ignorant to say that the western hemisphere does not accept chi....who lacks logical reasoning??? Narcissism....you should probably get it diagnosed so you can stop contradicting yourself...
ReplyDeleteStill very afraid of posting my comments I see.....
You say that half of your comments have been censored...
ReplyDeleteActually before you used my name to post your comments on this board this was an open board where any one could comment.
However, because you have actually violated google bloggers rules that you should not impersonate another person and of course that goes against all common debating rules and blogging codes of conduct I have had to introduce comment moderation because you have no respect for common decency in this debate and have resorted to the bizarre and rude tactic of impersonating me. Is this something you were trained to do in your professional ethics class in your massage college?
At the moment its 2 20 am in Australia and I will review your further comments in the next few days.
Thanks for causing a disruption in this forum and if there is any delay in posting your comments that you have no one to blame but yourself for obviously violating google bloggers terms and conditions about impersonating other people.
Its a low trick to confuse innocent people and obviously only a particular type of person would resort to such behaviour
You ARE censoring my comments since you are not posting them in chronological order. This just shows your cowardly facets.
ReplyDeleteyou say that I say "the western hemisphere does not accept chi'
ReplyDeletewow your amazing!!!!
Where did I say that?
Was that just a twist of my comment that Western medicine doesn't accept chi?
You just casually substitute hemisphere for medicine and then quote it as if i say it and then say I cant logically reason.
Wow your incredible!
You say
ReplyDelete"Regulation occurs when something injurious or harmful has been done, and enough cases have been reported and therefore there needs to be a body to protect the public from harm.'
Where is your evidence that unregulated or unregistered massage therapists have done any harm to people or more importantly have done more harm than good because as your example of the "certified" chiropractor show or all the cases of medical malpractice show, just by registering someone doesnt stop injuries but in regards to massage there has been so few cases of people being hurt by massage therapists in almost every country that most countries like Australia, New Zealand, the UK, Ireland and many provinces in Canada have decided there is absolutely no reason to regulate the massage therapy industry. In Quebec they specifically rejected registration because there was no significant proof that people were being harmed by unregistered therapists.
See these articles
http://www.healingandlaw.com/SMMN/SMMN_Vol_3/SMMN_Vol.3__No.2/smmn_vol.3__no.2.html#SMMN.3-2
I think the move toward licensure is regrettable. I believe licensing creates state-sanctioned monopolies ... with the explicit goal of 'protecting the public,' but with the real effect of protecting those who hold the monopolies' respective entitlements, reducing information to the public, and restricting competition. - Don Schwartz.
It seems that proponents of licensing are hopeful that a state license would mean more money, status, and power. - Jerry A. Green, Attorney for the California Coalition on Somatic Practices.
When the right to practice a trade or profession depends not on personal initiative but also on the approval of some agency, ...the industry has laid the foundation for the exercise of monopoly power. No longer may anyone perform legal, medical accounting architectural or other tasks. The first condition for a competitive society - freedom of entry - is gone. - J. K. Lieberman
from this page ..... http://www.healingandlaw.com/Massage_Law_Newsletter/MLN_Vol.12/MLN_Vol.12.No.3/mln_vol.12.no.3.html
In 1991-1992, a governmental agency in Quebec conducted an extensive two year research project to determine the incidence of harm associated with massage.
The results revealed that massage therapists, regardless of their training, had not harmed anybody. This is why massage therapists are not regulated in Quebec.
Because massage therapists do not harm people in Quebec, there's no reason to assume that massage therapists harm people anywhere. There's also no need to regulate massage therapists to protect the public from harm anywhere.
None can love freedom but good men.
ReplyDeleteThe rest love not freedom, but license.
John Milton
http://www.healingandlaw.com/Massage_Law_Newsletter/MLN_Vol.18/MLN_Vol.18__No.2/mln_vol.18__no.2.html#mln%2018/2
ReplyDeletevery intresting posts Bobby Rayban
ReplyDeleteHi Brandon,
ReplyDeleteI'm currently attending school in Ontario to become a RMT and a fellow student actually send me this link.
I agree with a lot of the points you are making, but equally disagree with the rest. I'm in a one year accelerated program and it's very intense. School has taken over my entire life outside of sleeping, as I'm looking to do well.
The reason that the CMTO is making the statement, that the regulation of the profession is "to protect the public from harm", is simple: To be part of the "Regulated Health Professions Act". In order to be part of the Act any health related profession has to first demonstrate that harm can be done and then demonstrate preventable steps through the "Standards of Practice".
I believe on a whole the benefits outweigh the negatives by being regulated and having a standard for schooling and practice. It has been a long road here in Ontario at least and there are further prejudices to overcome by the orthodox medical system and lawmakers. It has made the profession more legitimate and the reason many choose to got through the process of becoming registered is INCOME.
No matter what the passion in the end we have to make a living and its human nature to want more and to upgrade. Regulation also makes sure that each RMT continues to upgrade their skills through CEU's and that allows for many directions including for example acupuncture or shiatsu and the list goes on.
That said its not true that there is a strict regulation on what treatment may be used there are many complementary skills that may be integrated, sure one has to jump through the hoops, but once the extra training has been completed it can be billed under massage therapy and can be forwarded for payment through insurance benefit's, which is important for many practicing RMT's in Ontario.
We do live in a socialist society and as the old saying goes: "If you can't beat them, join them". Due to OHIP (Ontario health insurance) many people are of the mindset that health care should be free and find it difficult to pay for alternative care unless desperate due to failure of the OHIP system. Regulation has validated many alternative health care professionals and therefore made it possible to be recognized at least by extra insurance benefit plans offered through many employers.
Hi Andreas
ReplyDeleteFor more information about my views on what you are saying and areas that we disagree see my article about whether massage should be part of a socialised medicine or part of the free market that I just posted.
I dont agree with you that we cant beat them either. I think we can.
Freedom is worth fighting for.
By the way what makes a profession "legitimate" is the effectivess of the treatment that a therapist delivers. Because the only person that needs to feel a massage is "legitimate" is the client receiving it in a free market, not other so caqlled halth professionals, who in many ways are actually competitors for the consumers health money either directly or through taxation.
Best wishes
Brandon Raynor